Thanks for the wonderful post.

I see your point as being the same as mine: He was warned, “Beware lest thou barter away this sublime station.” It was the Minister who took action, no the Big Boss. I see that Dawn objects to the Emperor being praised. I do not see that the Emperor did anything other than to employ a sensible and fair Minister. It is normal etiquette to praise the Boss for things done by underlings, at least in my culture.

This magician business is also interesting. People take it that if someone can routinely do something that is beyond the technical understanding of an audience, he is a magician or a Man from God. I can’t see the helpfulness of that, yet people talk about it all the time.

There was a National Geographic show on last night about several people who lived in the time of Jesus all of whom performed healing miracles. Personally I consider the Revelation of the Surih of Joseph by the Báb in such a short time a miracle. And it is there to read.

Finally Adib, thank you for illuminating the matter of the wrenching of the initial followers away from the spiritual misery into which Persia had fallen at that time. I would interpret the injunction to tear up the cemeteries as referring to the mental place of the spiritually dead where the people congregated in their hearts. To me it has inner meaning. It is interesting how people tend to refer to Revelation as having only literal meaning.

Destroying a physical graveyard does nothing at all. Overthrowing the dead in heart leads to enlightenment – or could! Similarly, the ‘books’ being destroyed are sets of teachings that accumulated over the years by the pen of the self-closing eyes of fanatical mullahs and vain leaders. As long as the followers of the Báb were hostage to that fabric of the spiritually degerate society in which they lived, it would have remained difficult to establish an understanding of the independent character of the His Revelation and the one that was to follow immediately.

As you say, its purpose was to prepare the way. My understanding of it is that it all deals with the spiritual realm. Those pre-occupied with material things of course perhaps interpret it materially and remain imprisoned in those thoughts and interpretations. The most great prison is the prison of self.

Very interesting.

Thanks everyone. The consultation will time out shortly.

Regards to all
Crispin

>A minister of this king (prince dolgourki) for whatever reason helps another person (bahaullah) get out of prison or escape capital punishment.
I already told you he was innocent. See my post above and the reference provided.

>Now knowing how ruthless the king and his government are Bahaullah should only, at most thank the minister or the king for the certain act they performed for him. But No, He goes to much higher levels, levels that are completely unacceptable. He does the following (all quoted from god passes by):

Again, this Czar is not the only unpopular ruler that Baha’u'llah praised. He is speaking to the Shah in a kindly tongue so that he may be drawn to the message of Baha’u'llah. If my unauthoritative interpretation poses a problem for you, then here are the exact words from Baha’u'llah to that same Czar elsewhere reaffirming my statement:

“O Czar of Russia! Incline thine ear unto the voice of God, the King, the Holy, and turn thou unto Paradise, the Spot wherein abideth He Who, among the Concourse on high, beareth the most excellent titles, and Who, in the kingdom of creation, is called by the name of God, the Effulgent, the All-Glorious. Beware that nothing deter thee from setting thy face towards thy Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We, verily, have heard the thing for which thou didst supplicate thy Lord, whilst secretly communing with Him. Wherefore, the breeze of My loving-kindness wafted forth, and the sea of My mercy surged, and We answered thee in truth. Thy Lord, verily, is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. Whilst I lay, chained and fettered, in the prison of Tihrán, one of thy ministers extended Me his aid. Wherefore hath God ordained for thee a station which the knowledge of none can comprehend except His knowledge. Beware lest thou barter away this sublime station.” (Baha’u'llah, Suratu’l-Haykal, cited in “Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 57)

There. That was Baha’u'llah’s goal and intent.
>b- He calls Alexander II (his hands filthy with the blood of innocent people) :”His Imperial MAJESTY, the MOST GREAT Emperor”.
I think you should read “The Summons of the Lord of Hosts” by Baha’u'llah. In that work, he sends messages to multiple rulers of the world – such as Napoleon III, Queen Victoria, Pope Pius IX, and Kaiser Wilhelm – and later reprimands and scolds them when they all (except Victoria) repudiate his message. His kind tone was employed in his messages to these people to draw them closer to recognizing his cause:

“A kindly tongue is the lodestone of the hearts of men. It is the bread of the spirit, it clotheth the words with meaning, it is the fountain of the light of wisdom and understanding.” (Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 15)

>c- And he asks god to assist him:” may God, exalted and glorified be He, ASSIST him”

“And when this Wronged One [Baha'u'llah] went forth out of 22 His prison, We journeyed, in pursuance of the order of His Majesty the Sháh—may God, exalted be He, protect him…” (Baha’u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, pp. 21-22)

This is almost 40 years after Baha’u'llah was exiled from Iran, and he is STILL asking God to help the Shah. Doesn’t get much worse than the man who essentially made your life a living hell. He cared for these people spiritually, not contingently. See my above responses.

>Regarding miracles I am still waiting for three miracles PERFORMED by bahaullah from your own books.

If you want lava raining from the sky, it’s not happening. Please do not do what the Arabs did to Muhammad and try to make a magician out of a Messenger of God. Miracles are not valid proofs because nobody has seen them for themselves, and the greatest miracle is the message he brought to humanity. If you disagree, then that’s fine, you’re entitled to your own opinion. And yes, the mullahs DID chicken out in that instance; they gathered to give Baha’u'llah a miracle to perform and they never came to a consensus. Keep in mind that Baha’u'llah DID agree to perform one if they could come up with one, but the mullahs could not even do that.

Comments for articles on IPW close six days after the original posting. Thus, comments on this article will close in less than 24 hours. If you wish to continue your discussion via email, please write to us at neysan@iranpresswatch.org and we will put you in contact accordingly.

Kind regards,
Iran Press Watch

1-Its seems like you are turning a blind eye towards who Bahaullah prayed for and trying to justify his prayers. Let me put it like this: Suppose there is a king leading an imperialist government who has the blood of many innocent people dripping from his hands and causing many wars (Alexander II ). A minister of this king (prince dolgourki) for whatever reason helps another person (bahaullah) get out of prison or escape capital punishment. Now knowing how ruthless the king and his government are Bahaullah should only, at most thank the minister or the king for the certain act they performed for him. But No, He goes to much higher levels, levels that are completely unacceptable. He does the following (all quoted from god passes by):
a- He calls the imperialist war mongering government: “the HIGHLY ESTEEMED government.”
b- He calls Alexander II (his hands filthy with the blood of innocent people) :”His Imperial MAJESTY, the MOST GREAT Emperor”.
c- And he asks god to assist him:” may God, exalted and glorified be He, ASSIST him”
Now I will give an example. Suppose Bin laden or saddam hussein helped someone for any reason. Knowing that these two are ruthless criminals he would at least thank them for that specific task only, he wouldn’t go about saying to saddam and bin laden: ”Your highly esteemed government, you Majesty, the most great emperor, may god assist you”!!!

2->>How, then, could Baha’u’llah rationally pray for *transient actions* which run counter to the standards he has set?
Answer: that’s why I don’t believe in him. Because of these contradictions.

3->>It is obvious that he is not asking God to aid him in his destructive campaigns, then, but rather to *help guide him to Baha’u’llah and the standards he has set for kings and queens*.
a-you paraphrased bahaullahs words which you are forbidden to do according to your own faith.
b- Actually by seeing similar scripts and prayers from abdulbaha we see that he clearly means an assistance that is not about guidance:
“All friends should pray for the LONG LIFE and GOVERNMENT and INCREASE OF SUPPORTERS of his HIGHLY ESTEEMED MAJESTY the GREAT EMPEROR alexander III and for the LOVERS OF HIS GREAT MAJESTIC GOVERNMENT, because of great tablets from the holy land which translate and summarize to the following: This wronged group must always have in mind the protection and JUSTICE of the ILLUMINATED Russian GOVERNMENT and must always ask god the almighty for the SUPPORT and STANDING of the GREAT EMPEROR and MERCIFUL general.” (Masabihe hedyayt (the lights of guidance), volume 2 page 282, author: azizullah soleymani, published by the Bahai institute for publishing in IRAN (before the Iranian revolution))
P.S. Remember what shoghi said:“A HARSH POLICY OF REPRESSION, initiated by himself (Alexander II) and followed by his successor, Alexander III”

4-Regarding miracles I am still waiting for three miracles PERFORMED by bahaullah from your own books. I didn’t ask you to show me a claim that: “we were going to perform a miracle but the clergies didn’t accept or “they chickened out” or they were performed in private”. You claim that the prophets before Bahaullah sometimes didn’t show miracles so Bahaullah did the same. Agreed. But theose same prophets also showed many miracles which are all recorded in religious scripts. In the case of bahallah even in bahai books we see no miracles performed by him, not a single one but we always see excuses and baseless claims:”we never did it because no one would believe, just like all prophets who didn’t show miracles to some people, we were going to do it but they would refuse, they chickened out, …”

5->> the letters about the possible release of Baha’u’llah: what would you do if I showed them to you?
It would be very nice of you if you showed them to me (if they exist). Maybe I will be guided.

6-Some of your claims seriously lack any proof and most are baseless lies. If not at least give the references to the following:
a-“Did you know that an Islamic hadith says that after the Mahdi appears He and all His companions shall be massacred except one”.
b- “God said that should anyone falsely attribute his sayings as coming from God, the Lord will take hold of him and cut his life vein.”
c-“the miracles in Islam are according to the Quran itself are not a sufficient proof”
d-“Did you not hear the hadith which says: there is no coercion in belief; for you is your religion and for me is mine. La ikraha fi al din lakum dinakum wa li didni.”

“For all that hath been exalted in the Bayan is but as a ring upon My hand, and I Myself am, verily, but a ring upon the hand of Him Whom God shall make manifest–glorified be His mention! He turneth it as He pleaseth, for whatsoever He pleaseth, and through whatsoever He pleaseth. He, verily, is the Help in Peril, the Most High.” (Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 168)

This further affirms Baha’u'llah’s ability to do whatsoever he wished regarding the Bayan.

>None of the prophets had miracles and bahaullah dosn’t either.

We do not rely on miracles as proofs of the validity of a Messenger of God because they are only good for people who were there to witness it. In my opinion, being able to literally bring people back to life, making the stars rain on the heavens, and being able to sit on top of water vapor is far less important than bearing a message which has the potential to transform humanity forever.

>I have a list of unfulfilled prophecies from bahaullah which i can inform you about.

And I have a list of fulfilled ones:

1. The fall from power of the French Emperor Napoleon III and the consquent loss of his empire.
2. The defeat of Germany in two bloody wars, resulting in the ‘lamentations of Berlin.’
3. The success and stability of Queen Victoria’s reign.
4. The dismissal of ‘Ali Pasha as prime minister of Turkey.
5. The overthrow of Sultan ‘Abdu’l-Aziz of Turkey.
6. The breakup of the Ottoman Empire, leading to the extinction of the ‘outward spendour’ of its capital, Constantinople.
7. The downfall of Nasiri’d-Din Shah, the Persian monarch.
8. The advent of constitutional government in Persia.
9. A massive (albeit temporary) decline in the fortunes of monarchy throughout the world.
10. A worldwide erosion of ecclesiastical authority.
11. The collapse of the Muslim Caliphate.
12. The spread of communism, the “Movement of the Left,’ and its rise to world power.
13. The catastrophic decline of that same movement, triggered by the collapse of its egalitarian economy.
14. The rise of Israel as a Jewish homeland.
15. The persecution of Jews on the European continent (the Nazi holocause).
16. America’s violent racial struggles.
17. Baha’u'llah’s release from the prison of ‘Akka and the pitching of His tent on Mount Carmel.
18. The seizure and desecration of Baha’u'llah’s House in Baghdad.
19. The failure of all attempts to create schism within the Baha’i Faith.
20. The explosive acceleration of scientific and technological progress.
21. The development of nuclear weapons.
22. The achievement of transmutation of elements, the age-old alchemist’s dream.
23. Dire peril for all humanity as a result of that achievement.
24. The discovery that complex elements evolve in nature from simpler ones.
25. The recognition of planets as a necessary by-product of star formation.
26. Space travel.
27. The realization that some forms of cancer are contagious or communicable.
28. The fruitless search for a ‘missing link’ between man and ape.
29. The non-existence of a mechanical ether (the supposed light-carrying substance posited by classical physics), and its redefinition as an abstract reality.
30. The breakdown of mechanical models (literal images) as a basis for understanding the physical world.

If you want more on Baha’i prophecies, read “The Challenge of Baha’u'llah” (where the above list came from) and “He Cometh With Clouds” by Gary Matthews. Just because a prophecy has not yet been fulfilled does not mean it never will be; keep in mind that our religion is only 160 years old. Give it time.

>They either value him as a prophet (manifestation of god) or he has political value.

That’s rather black-and-white of you to assert, because in reality he didn’t fit either bill: Baha’u'llah and his message were and are intrinsically apolitical and neither the Shah nor Dolgorukov believed that he was a Manifestation of God. He was released because he was innocent; I will explain below.

>b-Russians intercede for bahaullahs release who was still a follower of Bab. The followers of Bab were also rioting against the central persian government.

Let me break down the entire assassination plot for you. There were three overzealous and distraught Babis who decided to kill the Shah in 1852. Baha’u'llah had NOTHING to do with this and actually condemned the plot later. The Babis only inflict a minor wound on the Shah, but many Babis – including Baha’u'llah, which was a mistake because he had no role – were arrested in a sweep.

Now, the secretary to the Russian Legation in Tehran at the time was Mirza Majid Ahi, who was married to a sister of Baha’u'llah, meaning Baha’u'llah had family ties with him. Therefore Baha’u'llah asked him to go to Prince Dmitri Ivanovich Dolgorukov, the Russian Minister in Tehran from 1845-1854, and interecede on his behalf *because he had done nothing wrong*. Dolgorukov approached the Shah and asked that he either bring forth incriminating evidence against Baha’u'llah or release him. Mirza Aqa Khan Nuri, the Grand Vizier of Persia, also did the same, and the Shah eventually agreed to release him but decreed that he be banished from Persia. Dolgorukov offered him a place in Russia, but Baha’u'llah refused, choosing Iraq instead. This began the chain of events which would turn into a 40-year exile and Baha’u'llah’s eventual death at `Akka in 1892. All of this is recounted in H.M. Balyuzi’s “Baha’u'llah: The King of Glory”.

>c-Bahaullah prays that god “assist” and “protect” the ruthless russian king!!! If you see a person who orders war against another country to kill their people and take their land, “WOULD YOU ASK GOD TO ASSIST AND PROTECT THIS PERSON”? NO NO NO.

For the record, Baha’u'llah also prayed for Nasiri’d-Din Shah, the very man who hastily imprisoned him and sent him on his path to a 40-year long exile, in this same manner. Baha’u'llah prayed for these people in hopes that they would have a change of heart and come to recognize the Messenger of God for that era: himself.

If you want proof that Baha’u'llah was asking God to aid them in spiritual affairs and not contingent ones, then let us eliminate the worldly possibilities with elucidation of the following verse of the Kitab-i-Aqdas:

“Ye are but vassals, O kings of the earth!…Arise, and serve Him Who is the Desire of all nations, Who hath created you through a word from Him, and ordained you to be, for all time, the emblems of His sovereignty.” (Verse 82)

Here, Baha’u'llah is stating that the kings of this world are but vassals (essentially servants) of the Almighty God, and he then goes on to state that kings of the world are meant to be *emblems of His sovereignty.” This means that they are meant to try their best at becoming signs of God on earth: the role kings and queens were and are meant to play. Please note that this does not mean that kings possess a higher ontological station that anybody else; they are human beings just like anybody else, but AS a king, they are meant to try and be just, kind, and merciful – all attributes of the Almighty.

In light of this elaboration, one can see that the aforementioned Czar’s actions and misdeeds are clearly NOT in accordance with Baha’u'llah’s ideal standards for rulers of nations. How, then, could Baha’u'llah rationally pray for *transient actions* which run counter to the standards he has set? It is obvious that he is not asking God to aid him in his destructive campaigns, then, but rather to *help guide him to Baha’u'llah and the standards he has set for kings and queens*.

>For example just take a look at the persian section of the library at bahaiorg. Their are many many books their but when you go to the english part only a handful have been translated? why?

Because the Baha’i World Center has a ton of things to translate and can’t get to everything right away. You are aware that Baha’u'llah has over 15,000 documents in sum? Again, you are utilizing nonsequiturs: just because something has not been translated as of yet *does not mean it never will be*.

>What i mentioned about the laws of the Bayan can also be found in Abdulbahas book:

That’s great, kudos to `Abdu’l-Baha for bringing that to our attention; that only further affirms Shoghi Effendi’s above statement. Now allow me to raise a point of my own:

“We have announced unto everyone that one single word from Thee excelleth all that hath been sent down in the Bayán.” (Aqdas, Verse 129)

The Bab proclaimed this during his own dispensation in the Bayan. Again, this means that the Babi dispensation – whose only purpsoe was to make a break in Shi’ah Islam and to prepare people for the advent of Baha’u'llah – was intended to be superseded by Baha’u'llah, and many of the laws in the Bayan were meant to be abrogated as well. Whether or not one would have joined a religion in spite of those laws is playing with hypothetical situations in light of reality: 20,000 people gave up their lives for his cause before 10 years had passed since its inception.

>Suppose you lived at the time of the Bab and he says hey i’ve brought a new religion and these are my laws: ‘all the crazy laws i mentioned’. Would you believe this guy to be a prophet or a manifestation of GOD? NO NO NO.

Well apparently the severity of the Bab’s laws was not enough to prevent Vahid Darabi – one of the most erudite Shi’ah Muslim scholars of his time, who interviewed the Bab on three occasions – from becoming a Babi and eventually attaining martyrdom. I have already explained why the Bab’s laws were so severe. Whether or not I would have recognized the Bab is a great question, as I honestly don’t think I would have because it takes a great deal of insight to recognize the Messenger of God for each era, but in this context it is irrelevant because the fact of the matter is that many people DID follow him and many WERE openly massacred on the streets and died for him.

And that’s another thing, by the way: I’m getting the impression that you think the Babis did all of the massacring in the late 1840s-early 1850s, which is historically inaccurate. There were only a couple of instances, and mind you none of them happened during the Bab’s ministry. There is an entire chapter in H.M. Balyuzi’s “Baha’u'llah: The King of Glory” called “Babi Martyrs of 1852″. You might want to peruse that if you can, and the entire book while you’re at it.

The Bab’s religion and the Bayan were not meant to last. They came. They went. Their duration of validity has long since expired. Again, the bulk of the Bayan is not relevant to our religion anymore. If we’re going to discuss issues, please make them Baha’i issues.

Regards,
Adib

Greetings.

I am not personally interested in miracles. Baha’u'llah says the only are of interest to this who witness them. I have not witnessed any.

Healing miracles of the Bab, as a single example the child whose face He healed by covering it with a cloth and removing it afterwards, are recorded in Baha’i literature so I do not see how you can say there are none when here are.

Re the letters about the possible release of Baha’u'llah: what would you do if I showed them to you? I can see you are not really interested. It seems want to tell everyone there was some sort of political link between the Russians and Baha’u'llah where none existed. We both have better things to do with out time.

Are you saying BECAUSE the Russians tried to stop the Persian government killing Him He was not a Manifestation, the behaviour of the Russians before or after being sufficient proof that He was not? That would be no proof at all! You can’t prove someone is not a Manifestation of God, the Unconstrained.

Back to your question about miracles by Baha’u'llah (rather then the Bab where I gave one well known example) I am wondering why you are asking for examples. What would you do with the information? Your motive does not seem to be to discover whether or not Baha’u'llah was a Manifestation of God as He claimed to be. If He is not, where then is the Promised One?

When offered a custom made-to-order miracle, the assembled Christian leaders of Adrianople who asked Baha’u'llah the same question you did, were convinced that He would do it. He said that if He performed their requested miracle (which theyhad to first agree on) they had to follow Him. They chickened out. Basically they said they cannot follow Him because he had not performed a miracle for them (instead of for others, which they did not see). Offered a miracle of their choice, they declined. They, like the priests challenging Muhammad, said ‘Perform for us a miracle and we will follow you’. The details of the Adrianople story are available in several Baha’i books.

Thank you for your offer of a list of ‘unfulfilled prophecies’ from Baha’u'llah. I am not sure it would help.

I know that prophecies are usually taken to indicate Divine powers, therefore it would be more interesting to see a list of prophecies which HAVE been fulfilled, because an unfulfilled prophecy is a prophecy in waiting. Prophecies are often allegorical and can only be understood after the fact so it can be tricky determining what was meant by a spiritual prophecy.

As for the fulfilled ones, Baha’u'llah made many which have already come true, the more easily checked ones being the fall or the endurance of leaders, both secular and religious, depending on how they responded to His call, many issued individually to those leaders. Whole books are devoted to this topic including “The Prison and the Kings’ which provides copious details on some propecies and fulfilments.

Prophecies which give dates are often misinterpreted, one well known example being about the Baha’i Faith being highly visible within a certain number of years. Measured from which year, though? The correct year was 1963 (Celebration of the extraordinary, historically unparallelled accomplishments of the 10 Year Crusade). Some people thought it was 1957 because they didn’t know when to start counting from because they didn’t read the whole thing.

That is the same problem with the prophecies regarding the return of Christ (1844). Some say 1843 and others 1914. Depends on when you start counting.

Regards

Well Dawn you object to the statement made above and that is your prerogative to do so. But when you add that you “don’t have that belief about bahaullah”, which of course is within your right to do so as well, you are actually tacitly assuming that someone is trying to force you to believe in Bahaullah or the Bahai faith—and which of course is the farthest from the truth. No one had asked you to believe. Actually, no Bahai would ask you to believe for that is a matter between you and your God. Bahaullah had specifically addressed this question, saying that he who accepts has benefited himself and he who does not accept we are to leave him be, and that Baha’is are forbidden in the Holy Aqdas from arguing with or objecting to anyone. Bahaullah enjoins upon Baha’is to leave him to God. Additionally, and for your information the Bahai Faith prohibits its followers from proselytizing in any way shape or form. Then you jump from above quoted assertion, (of not believing) and say “so you can not argue with me using this statement” thereby giving yourself license to discount Sahstri’s belief. It seems that you have taken upon yourself the right to judge that someone is or is not a believer and a scripture is or is not divine.

And again you write:

And 2-According to “god passes by”, these are know facts regarding the russian Tzar alexander II:
a-He initiated a harsh policy of repression which in his succesors brought in its wake war, disease and famine, and established a militant proletariat which massacred the nobility, persecuted the clergy, drove away the intellectuals, disendowed the state religion.

Indeed these facts are known as you assert. However, you seem to mix two facts stated in the above quote you cit from God Passes By; While the Tsar did institute a harsh policy he had nothing to do with what the “militant proletariat did”; these were the Bolshiviks who not only killed the other Tsar and his family but “massacred the nobility, persecuted the clergy, drove away the intellectuals, disendowed the state religion.”

Also you say:

b-Bahaullah prays this for him:”may God, exalted and glorified be He, assist him!—extended to Me for the sake of God his protection—a protection which has excited the envy and enmity of the foolish ones of the earth”.

If you knew what period and for which specific act of the Russian government did Bahaullah praise the Tsar you would not have mixed up your facts as you do below:

Simply put bahaullah asks god to ‘assist’ and ‘protect’ the ‘initiator of a harsh policy of repression’ which later led to ‘war, disease and famine, and established a militant proletariat which massacred the nobility, persecuted the clergy…’.

Bahaullah’s innocence of the charge regarding the attempt on the Shah’s life and all other charges was established beyond the shadow of a doubt and the Russian’s, [as well as other foreign powers] did indeed offer Him assistance for a safe passage to Baghdad. The very same thing happened when Bahaullah was exiled from Edirne to Akka which He flatley declined. While in Tehran Bahaullah was wrongly accused and at the insistence of Nasir’id-Din Shah’s mother He was thrown in the Siyah Chahl for four months and all His earthly possessions were confiscated. Did you know that an Islamic hadith says that after the Mahdi appears He and all His companions shall be massacred except one who Baha’is believe is Bahaullah. Again you are not asked to believe anything, I am just informing you of the facts as they occurred.

You also assert that:

You want me to believe that gods prophet (or manifestation) who believes is also a spiritual return of imam husayn has the desire that this tyrant (Alexander II) be ‘assisted’ and ‘protected’ by god himself!!? No way.

And again I suggest you consult authentic historical records and see for yourself the time line of all these events, especially the time the Tsar instituted those repressive policies and the later developments recorded in historical records, and how do these events fall on a time-line.
It seems that you have failed to understand that Bahaullah was supplicating God to reward that king for the assistance his government extended to Bahaullah, whose innocence was clearly established; and that assistance was that Bahaullah, after he was proven innocent and released, be conducted to Baghdad and to ensure that He arrives there alive and not simply be killed along the way there. I am sure you d not see that as justice, again that is your prerogative. What is wrong with that act of justice? Is it because your sources of information about the Baha’i Faith have been gotten from unfriendly sources; the sources that are replete with toxic misinformation, false accusation, and baseless propaganda against the Bahai’s that are being viciously circulated on every mass communication medium at the disposal of the Iranian government? Ask your self that question.
You seem to desperately want to somehow connect, by hook or by crook, your covert assertion that Bahaullah is somehow condoning the Tsar’s later actions and policies. Which would be a far stretch of the facts by any standard. I am afraid you have again failed in extrapolating to that connection.

Here is what you assert:

As stated bahaullah prays for the “assistance” and “protection” of oppressors which clearly contradicts the above claim.

Do you truly believe that by repeating the above assertion, you could validate the baseless assertion and extrapolation that Bahaulla condones the Tsar’s later tyranny simply by having supplicated God to reward him for his just action. What would you have done if you were to be jailed in a subterranean dungeon foul beyond description, while you are innocent of all that you had been accused of; and were someone to come and vindicate your innocence would you turn around and kick him in the shine?

And lastly, you ask:

Surely you must know that people do not read Bahaullah’s words because they think He is a manifestation of God, but because they truly believe with all their beings that He is the manifestation of God for this Day, and that He is the promised One of all ages as recorded in previous scriptures: Bahais believe that Bahaullah is the return of the Imam Husayn, and is the second coming of the Lord Jesus, is the Father, the Lord of Hosts, the Fifth Buda, the Shah Bahram, and the Speaker on Mount Sinai, in spite of what you and other deniers assert. And by the way no one is asking you to believe just so as to set the record straight.
A messenger of God does not have to prove anything to anyone; He Himself, His deeds and His life are the irrefutable proof, and after Him is the Word He leaves behind.
Did you not know what God had said about false prophets? I’ll tell you—God said that should anyone falsely attribute his sayings as coming from God, the Lord will take hold of him and cut his life vein. In the span of a mere 165 ( you assert 150—misinformed again) years the Bahai Faith has spread all over the world and its adherents are found in every country except the Vatican.
In the first 6 years of the Bab’s ministry on earth no less than 20,000 of His followers were put to death in the most heinous and cruel ways, while the first 6 years of the Prophet Muhammad’s ministry [Peace Be Upon Him] a mere 40 individuals believed in Him. Read your faith’s history and the histories of other faiths that you my become informed.

Speaking of miracles: These have never been a proof for anyone except those who saw them. And many of those who saw them attributed the same to sorcery. Again read the history of your faith and see for yourself what did the prophet Muhammad says about miracles and how He refused to perform them when asked to prove His mission. Did the Jews and idolaters, who saw many of Muhammad’s miracles believe in the Prophet? Now the miracles in Islam are according to the Quran itself are not a sufficient proof. Saying this in no way means that Muhammad did not have many miracles, He did and so did Bahaullah and the Bab. By the same token all of God’s messengers perform miracles, and Bahaullah performed many miracles that were recorded by eyewitnesses. If I did not see them that does not mean they did not occur. By the same token you did not see the miracles of the Prophet, unless you have been living since 1400 years ago to have been an eyewitness. Were you there to see them? Or are these not stories told by x from what he heard from z, who in turn heard it from xx from c, from y and so on. Did the person who recorded them in the many hadiths see them or did he merely record them?
I urge you therefore to not make assertions you can not substantiate and extrapolations you can not support, especially when it comes to matters of faith. So judge the Baha’is by the same standards of investigation that you would have others judge your faith and yourself; that is if you want to be fair and even handed and above all objective.
Did you not hear the hadith which says: there is no coercion in belief; for you is your religion and for me is mine. La ikraha fi al din lakum dinakum wa li didni.

I urge you now to read only the Kitabi Aqdas to see for yourself the laws Bahaullah instituted and the laws he abrogated, not only from the Bayan but from the previous religions as well.
And finally to address your last point: the so called detached and objective reading of the Bahai scripture, revealed by Bahaullah

What i meant was that if you read this tablet without prejudice there is nothing in it to show it is divine.

From your above statement, it would be safe to say that you do see divine things when you read your own holy scripture. Could you then perhaps educate us by sharing what you see in the scriptures you believe in, that had convinced you that they are divine in origin; let me be more specific—what do you see as being divine when you read the Quran…is this a belief you yourself had found or is it something you were told and believed it blindly. In other words is it something you had inherited? For your information no such thing is allowed in the Baha’i Faith. You will clearly see this when you read the very first paragraph of Bahaulla’s book, the Iqan, or Book of Certitude as well as others by Bahaullah, such as the Seven Valleys and Four Valleys, or the Gems of Divine Mysteries, where He lays the condition a seeker after truth must fulfill, as your own good self no doubt are a seeker after truth.
How ironic it is that in another post you claim that you had debated many Baha’is and then allegedly conclude that all of them say the same thing as quoted from another of your comments below, where you say:

I’ll clarify some points:
1- I have debated with many bahais and they all same the same thing: None of the prophets had miracles and bahaullah dosn’t either. If you think they do show me at least three miracles from bahaullah, from BAHAI published books or documents. 1400 years after the prophet mohammad and 2000 years after jesus many of their miracles can still be found in christian and islamic scriptures. Only 150 years have passed from bahaullahs time and we can not find a single recorded miracle from him, not even in bahai scriptures. I have a list of unfulfilled prophecies from bahaullah which i can inform you about.

For your information there are many miracles that have been recorded from Bahaullah as well as from the Bab. I do not know which Baha’is you had debated, but I assure you that every Baha’I knows of the example I am about to give you so that you will no longer make such baseless allegations. For that example you need to read the account where Bahaullah is challenged to produce a miracle by the Islamic clergy in Iraq headed by one who was sent by Naser’id- Din Shah to do some refurbishing of the holy Shai Shrines Karbila; Bahaullah agreed to perform any miracle they wished on the condition that they all agree to one miracle and to sign a document stating that should He do so to their satisfaction, they in turn would agree to concede to His claims. Guess what happened? They refused, just as the those who objected to the prophet Muhammad had done before them.

I advise you to read what Bahaullah wrote to the Shah of Iran…you will find that on the Baha’i official site under the Summons of the Lord of Hosts…and while you are at it, do read what He also wrote to the Sultan Abdu’l Aziz, the Kaiser of Germany, and Napoleon the III. Only after having read all these as well as the Tablet titled the Son of the Wolf, addressed to one of Isfahan’s high ranking clergy, could you perhaps claim that you have read Baha’i scripture. For doing otherwise, you would be wasting your breath and would also appear to be the incarnation of all those who objected to all of God’s messengers in the past; just as it is narrated in the Surah of Hud, in the holy Quran.

2- What i mentioned about the laws of the Bayan can also be found in Abdulbahas book:
“In Bab’s period his laws were: decapitation of the head, and burning the books, destroying the shrines and massacaring all that did not believe in bab ” (Makatib (letters) of abdulbaha, volume 2 page 266)
(Today we call this act ethnically cleansing)
But you dont get the point. You say these were abrogated by bahaullah. We havn’t reached that part of the story yet. Suppose you lived at the time of the Bab and he says hey i’ve brought a new religion and these are my laws: ‘all the crazy laws i mentioned’. Would you believe this guy to be a prophet or a manifestation of GOD? NO NO NO. Now here is the point: bahaullah says Bab was a prophet and manifestation of god and im the guy he was talking about. Then would you believe bahaullah was a prophet or manifestation of GOD? NO NO NO. The persian government was trying to stop these fanatics who were masaccaring people and destroying everything and anyone who was against them and bahais come up and say why were the persian kings trying to “ethnically clean” the babis? Well dude it was the opposite the persian kings were trying to get rid of a bunch of religios fanatics who thought all none babi’s should be massacared and their properties destroyed.

I’ll clarify some points:
1- I have debated with many bahais and they all same the same thing: None of the prophets had miracles and bahaullah dosn’t either. If you think they do show me at least three miracles from bahaullah, from BAHAI published books or documents. 1400 years after the prophet mohammad and 2000 years after jesus many of their miracles can still be found in christian and islamic scriptures. Only 150 years have passed from bahaullahs time and we can not find a single recorded miracle from him, not even in bahai scriptures. I have a list of unfulfilled prophecies from bahaullah which i can inform you about.

2->I disagree. You can read the letters from the Russian Ambassador to his government as I think they are now a matter of public record. Also the massacres of the Babis made the press in many European countries, so vile was the treatment of those people.

If such letters exist where are they. Your claims are baseless unless you prove the above statements.

3->>Things like (page 166): “The foundation of the Bayan (Bab’s holy book) religion were based on DESTROYING ALL BOOKS WHOSE TOPICS WERE ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BAYAN RELIGION [1] and DESTROYING THE SHRINES, PLACES OF WORSHIP and CEMETARIES [2] OF ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FOLLOWERS OF BAB AND KILLING THEM [3] AND TAKING THEIR WOMEN [4] AND CONCISELEY SAID DESTROYING THOSE PEOPLE AND THEIR SIGNS [5]…”.Now remember, the russians were attacking persia and trying to take over it.<When?<
Do some research, maybe history is also spoon fed to you by the UHJ:
“With the Russian Empire continuously advancing south in the course of two wars against Persia, and the treaties of Turkmanchai and Golestan in the western frontiers, plus the unexpected death of Abbas Mirza in 1823, and the murder of Persia’s Grand Vizier (Mirza AbolQasem Qa’im Maqām), Persia lost its traditional foothold in Central Asia to the Russian Tsarist armies. [1] The Russian armies occupied the Aral coast in 1849, Tashkent in 1864, Bukhara in 1867, Samarkand in 1868, and Khiva and Amudarya in 1873. The Treaty of Akhal, in which the Qajarid’s were forced to cede Khwarazm, topped off Persian losses to the global emerging power of Imperial Russia.”
en-wikipedia-org/wiki/Iran-Russia_relations

5-I never said anything about a russian plot. I just put forward the facts. You can decide for yourself:
a-Russian’s are waging a ruthless war against iran to occupy their lands and topple the government.
b-Russians intercede for bahaullahs release who was still a follower of Bab. The followers of Bab were also rioting against the central persian government.
c-Bahaullah prays that god “assist” and “protect” the ruthless russian king!!! Its not a matter of his prayers being fulfilled by god or not. You dont see the point. If you see a person who orders war against another country to kill their people and take their land, “WOULD YOU ASK GOD TO ASSIST AND PROTECT THIS PERSON”? NO NO NO.

And dont give me that ridiculouse reason that the russians were interceding on behalf of the Babi community because of the massacares created by the persians. How sweet of them!!!! These blood thirsty people were massacaring the persians and occupyinf their land. And now they are shedding crocodile tears for a bunch of Babi’s. They only intercede for their leader Bahaullah and no one else. Unless bahaullah is valuable for the russians, What difference does it make for the russians if bahaullah dies or lives? They either value him as a prophet (manifestation of god) or he has political value. We can be sure bahaullah had no divine value for them because neither the russian king nor the ambassador converted to bahaism or babism and their is no historical record mentioning that any of the mentioned russians had spoken about Bab’s and Bahaullah religions and HOW GREAT their religions are.